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Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

gisterme - 05:21pm Sep 12, 2001 EST (#8866 of 8887)

WRT the last dozen or so posts from Showalter and lunarchick...

Tell all that idealistic, theoretical bull sh!t to the families of yesterday's victims.

And, Robert, if you think you can negotiate with madmen, then you put yourself in a class with Neville Chamberlain. You've extrapolated "understanding" to the point of the ridiculous. I'm sure that Hitler thought that his own actions were beautiful too.

If you tried to go negotiate with the guys behind yesterday's mass murders, then I'd know you were a fool. They'd have you on a spit in no time amidst peals of laughter...just like Hitler did with Chamberlain. They're mass murderers who are no more interested in negotiating than their brothers Hitler and Tojo. They'd take your gifts and as soon as you got done kissing their @sses they'd kill you without a blink.

It's impossible to de-huminize that which is already inhuman. Do you think that history has de-humanized Hitler in some unreasonable way? I find your desire to humanize the nazi (or other mass murderers) on the one hand and denounce the US as being "nazi-like" on the other a bit two-faced. People aren't stupid, Robert. Why do you act as if you think so?

Finally, I beg your pardon, Robert, but you should speak for yourself when you say that the minds those suicide pilots are not unlike our own. Maybe you want to claim a similarity; but I don't and most other rational folks won't either. I'm sane and rational by the standards of my society. I didn't notice anybody , including the leaders of the entire Islamic community except osama ben laden giving any support to the rationality of the actions of those who carried out yesterday's atrocity. Even Arafat who is a founding father of suicide bomber tactics seemed genuinely shaken. I don't doubt that the reason for that is because he realizes that this act has changed his little empire too.

Sorry, Robert; but, I just can't buy the way you try to justify evil things by intangile association...by just glossing them over with the rhetoric of generalization. There was nothing magical or mystical about what happened yesterday. That's reality.

rshowalter - 05:26pm Sep 12, 2001 EST (#8867 of 8887)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

All right, George Johnson (Cooper), I'll fight with you. Let me take my time doing it.

I never said that the US deserved what happened yesterday.

I have said that we've done a great deal that has made us hated. You haven't read much of this thread, have you?

Our "Putin stand-in," almarst , has made quite a case.

I've spent much of my time trying to keep almarst involved, and not denying the reasons he feels as he feels, but also pointing out the good in America - - and some shortcomings in Russia, too.

rshowalter - 05:30pm Sep 12, 2001 EST (#8868 of 8887)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

Well, gisterme , we're getting somewhere.

I don't object to fighting and killing the people who were behind those terrible crimes of yesterday.

Never said I was.

But where do you end it - - and on what terms?

There may be 75-100 million people in the world who were cheered by that crime -- who really do have quite a lot of hatred of the United States.

Are we going to kill them? How might we go about it? If we could kill them, would that be a good idea.

Even in the middle of fights, understanding still counts, and dehumanizing people , even enemies, is a bad idea.

rshowalter - 05:31pm Sep 12, 2001 EST (#8869 of 8887)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

The purpose of "winning" fights is to find something worth winning.

A livable situation.

gisterme - 05:35pm Sep 12, 2001 EST (#8870 of 8887)

Robert, you're technically correct when you say that it is impossible to prepare for every scenario. Obviously, there will be some that we just don't think of. But we'd be remiss to be caught again with our pants down on a scenario that is very possible.

Sometimes we do have to count, Robert, and sadly, this is one of those times. That's going on in NYC right now. It may be months before we know the result. We may never know the exact number.

rshowalter - 05:38pm Sep 12, 2001 EST (#8871 of 8887)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

And because we have to count, and calculate, and because being right is so important, we have to be careful, check what's checkable, and not take damn fool chances on sucker bets - - like keeping funding projects that can't possibly work.

The protection of the United States is serious business.

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