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Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

gisterme - 04:19am Sep 8, 2001 EST (#8645 of 8651)

almarst wrote ( almarst-2001 9/7/01 4:44pm ): "...The Cold War helped to promote the technological progress. But the HOT war did so even faster. If the technological progress is the most importand and desirable goal of the Human Civilization we should all salute the Hitler today..."

When you say "Hot War" I presume you mean WWII, the Great Patriotic War or whatever you prefer to call it. But surely you realize that things have changed since then. They changed just when that war ended. They changed with the destruction of two Japanese cities. The world was never truely on the brink of destricution during that war, regardless of how horrible it was. Since then we (the whole world) have truly been to the brink and back (thank God). Perhaps there is intellegent life on Earth after all. I'm sincerely greatful that there was no "Hot War" in place of the Cold War. Do you think we'd be here today if there had been such a war?

It's nice to hear from you, almarst. In spite of our past contention on certain things I do have a lot of respect for you and many of your views, and even though we may disagree on some things, I hope you feel the same respect for me.

I haven't had much time to participate on this forum lately because I've been buisy with other things that happen with us capitalists (like keeping the wolves away from the door); but, this forum has a certain morbid attraction for me along with the rest of the .01% of the really twisted part of the born-here American population. :-) I suppose I'm just a glutton for punishment...and I can't help but suspect that other familiar contributors here are too. As for the other 99.9%? I doubt that they could care less. So let's wag the dog if we can; but, if not, well, life goes on. My general attitudude is: Every day is a holiday and every meal is a banquet... :-)

gisterme - 06:01am Sep 8, 2001 EST (#8646 of 8651)

rshowalter wrote: ( ): If the Russians trusted us to act differently from the way we acted during the "Cold War" . . . there would be fine opportunities for peace.

Robert, your statment sounds silly. That's exacly the same as saying that "If the Japanese trusted us to act diffently today than if they did during WWII there would be fine opportunites of peace. You seem to have a crisis with time and context, my friend.

The way that we and the Russians acted toward Germiany during WWII is little different to the way that we acted toward each other during the Cold War. The point is, that was war. That war is over. Now, this is peace. It's unfair for you to try to apply the rules of war to the condition of peace just to advance your arguement. Give me (and the other three of us in the US who care) a break!

Dialog in this thread, from almarst , indicates that again and again. And expresses, in detail, what the concerns are, and why they are.

With all due respect, Robert, almarst and I have both said before that we only represent our personal selves and not any governments. Why do you insist on applying such ponderous weight to the opinons of just two individuals as if we were heads of State? Speaking now only for myself, you've claimed that I'm some sort of administration official, Condoleeza Rice, possibly a Senator or State Representative and most lately a "Washington operator"! All this in the face of my forthright, no BS statements that no such things are true. Robert, sometimes I think you're living in a fanatsy world. What plant is that? May I come visit? I need a vacation!

Trust , and issues of reliable information flows , are crucial.

And since the end of the Cold War those flows of "reliable" information have become far less like the whispering of spies and far more like the healthy confabulation between brothers.

I think you're stuck in the 1970's Robert. Come out! Open your eyes! Look around! The entire world has moved forward since then. Even China! The only purpose for the vestages of communisim that are hanging on there are to perpetuate the dictatorship. Robert I've said before that you seem to love to judge wartime behavior by peacetime standards. That's just comparing apples to oranges. I sincerely find it hard to believe that you'd have any substantial arguement at all if you judged wartime behavior by wartime standards and peactime behavior by peacetime standrds. What do Henry Kissinger or General Clark have to do with today's world situation? I'd venture to say, "very little beyond the realm of your own imagination".

"...If the possibilty of deception is "not discussable" --- then solutions, that might otherwise be possible, may be classified out of existence. In a case this complex, I believe that the convention that deceptions are not to be considered and cleaned up will classify the kinds of cooperation "win-win" solutions take out of existence..."

That's hyperbole, Robert. The "possibility of deception" is a fact of life wheter it's between two hookers on a NYC avenue or between two nations. How many discussions have you had about the "possibility of deception" in your everyday life? That topic makes a fine abstract issue but like communist theory has nothing to do with reality. As far as "solutions" go, those will take care of themselves now that folks around the world can communicate freely. Robert, you should try to remove your mind from the "Cold War" set and realize that things really have changed. We're way beyond trying to interpret the lifted eyebrow or twitched finger of an adversary. The information eye-dropper is a thing of the past. Today it has become the information fire-hose. We're talking directly, face-to-face about very tough issues every day...the very kinds of things that would have been un-disscuss

gisterme - 06:04am Sep 8, 2001 EST (#8647 of 8651)

gisterme 9/8/01 6:01am coninued:

We're way beyond trying to interpret the lifted eyebrow or twitched finger of an adversary. The information eye-dropper is a thing of the past. Today it has become the information fire-hose. We're talking directly, face-to-face about very tough issues every day...the very kinds of things that would have been un-disscussable political footballs during the Cold War. I invite you to come join the 21st century, Robert, and to consider more carefully before saying things that sound like 1915 rhetoric.

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