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New York Times on the Web Forums Science
Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans
for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be
limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI
all over again?
(8353 previous messages)
rshowalter
- 06:25pm Sep 2, 2001 EST (#8354
of 8359) Robert Showalter
showalte@macc.wisc.edu
Another key point, that I believe is essential to understanding
how wars happen, is set out in
Mankind's Inhumanity to Man and Woman - As natural as human
goodness? http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7b085/0
.. which owes a LOT to Lunarchick's longstanding and deep interest
in evolutionary psychology.
It starts:
" Looking at the world, there are so many cases of
"unthinkable" and "unexplainable" evil and negligence, that the
mind and heart recoils. People recall such behavior among the
Nazis, and recoil, as well they might. How could "civilized,
aesthetically sensitive, cultured people" ALSO act so monstrously,
and with such clear and sophisticated murderous intent.
" But is this behavior so strange? Or is it the
NATURAL state of people, dealing with outsiders, outsiders who
they naturally dehumanize, and deal with as heartless, exploitive
predators? Is it civilization and mercy that are the "unnatural"
things - the things that have to be taught, and negotiated into
being, and strived for?
" I'm coming to think that it is just as natural
for people to act "inhumanly" - that is cruelly, and in a
dehumanizing way, towards OUTSIDERS, as it is natural for people
to act warmly, and with accommodation and mutual support, for
people WITHIN their group.
"I'm coming to the view that, just as there is an
instinct for language, and an instinct for becoming a part of a
group, inborn in humans, there is an instinct to exclude
outsiders, to dehumanize them, to withhold cooperation from them,
and to treat them as animals, subject to manipulation an
predation. I'm coming to believe that this treatment of outsiders
is an instinctive species characteristic, evolved over the
millions of years when people lived as gatherers and team hunters.
"If this is true, we all have the basic instincts
to be kind, sensitive, and good, within our groups, but at the
same time are naturally "monsters" in our behavior toward
outsiders.
"If this is right, the role of civilization is to
find ways of peace and effective cooperation where isolation,
conflict, duplicity, and merciless manipulation, including murder,
might otherwise occur.
It is easy for military people to kill "others" --
I think the pattern is to be seen in
''Waging Modern War' by WESLEY K. CLARK http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/02/books/chapters/02-1stclark.html
reviewed in
'Waging Modern War': A Defeated Victor Reflects on Kosovo
by ROGER COHEN http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/02/books/review/02COHENTW.html
Americans, from the perspective of other nations, can look a lot
like Major Strasser in Casablanca.
I think Americans need to understand that, and deal with its
consequences. We shouldn't be a nation others "love to hate" if we
can avoid it.
By that standard, Bush seems to me to be doing everything wrong.
rshowalter
- 07:18pm Sep 2, 2001 EST (#8355
of 8359) Robert Showalter
showalte@macc.wisc.edu
On MAN'S INHUMANITY TO MAN . .
Japanese Veteran Writes of Brutal Philippine War http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/02/international/asia/02FILI.html
By SETH MYDANS
MANILA — " Jintaro Ishida knows his country's
guilty secrets. Like few other Japanese, he knows in detail about
the atrocities of World War II, and he knows of the quiet torment
of the aging veterans who took part.
" He knows, for example, about the massacre at
the well in the Philippine village of Lipa, where 400 people were
thrown to their deaths. The blood lust of the soldiers ran so
high, he says, that one of them smashed a rock onto the head of a
woman who was combing her hair.
. . . .
" Japan's refusal to acknowledge its wartime
crimes was highlighted recently by the publication of textbooks
that gloss over the past and by the visit of Prime Minister
Junichiro Koizumi to the Yasukuni Shrine, which honors fallen
Japanese soldiers.
. . ..
" Like many other Japanese, Mr. Ishida said, he
had been ignorant of the dark side of his country's history — of
the massacres, sexual slavery, forced labor and the use of
chemical and biological warfare.
. . .. .
"When he confronted the Japanese veterans, he
said, he found something as disturbing as anything he saw in the
Philippines: the men who had committed atrocities were ordinary
Japanese like himself.
" "During the war I was in the navy and never
went to the Philippines," he said. "But if I had been assigned
there I would have been one of the Japanese soldiers who took part
in the massacres. So it was hard for me to continue with the
interviews. It was a horrible experience for me."
. . . .
" In the beginning, we could not kill even a man,"
says one of the soldiers at Lipa who is quoted in Mr. Ishida's new
book. "But we managed to kill him.
" "Then we hesitated to kill a woman. But we
managed to kill her, too. Then we could kill children. We came to
think as if we were just killing insects."
" Today, Mr. Ishida seems stunned by what he
has learned about his comrades and about human nature. "These
stories were beyond anything I had expected," he said. "How could
they have done this? Did they have no conscience?"
" After a decade of research he has compiled a
wealth of historical material. But he has been left with more
questions than ever."
rshowalter
- 07:20pm Sep 2, 2001 EST (#8356
of 8359) Robert Showalter
showalte@macc.wisc.edu
Rape Camp by Dawn Riley http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee79f4e/1512
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