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Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

rshowalter - 07:07pm Jun 15, 2001 EST (#5227 of 5245)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

gisterme 6/15/01 6:13pm

rshowalter wrote: "...And if you have to get compatible definitions -- both ways -- it can take some talking..."

Why compatible definitions, Robert? Why not the SAME definitions?

You want the operational definitions of everything that matters to be just as clear, and as nearly identical to the parties, as you can possibly get them. But for different cultures, that can take some extra checking -- here's why.

People learn words and concepts "from context" -- and the context between cultures may happen to be identical in some cases, but it may happen to be different in unpredictable ways in some others.

Words, and the concepts that words stand for, are both that way. Let's talk about words. Gisterme - I'd bet you know more than 150,000 words (and that number can be estimated by sampling) and odds are you've not looked up the definition of more than 15,000 words in your whole life. The rest somehow "condense from context" -- we are all surrounded by culture, and very large word counts -- people hear something like 30,000 words a day . So you "know" definitions -- but giving a precise definition is an additional step of intellectual effort, and most of the time you don't know what you know, as far as meanings go, or how you learned it.

Other people, from other backgrounds, are the same way.

That means that to be workably sure that you are using words in the same way -- there has to be some discussion -- academics call it "negotiations about meaning" -- and people have such negotiations all the time. They only work when people get "comfortable" with what is being said -- it can't be forced, like rape --- or patterns of cooperation don't work well ( "It don't mean a thing if it don't have that swing.... "

When you are talking to Russians, you are talking to people who live in a culture that is different in ways neither you, nor they, are going to be sure of in detail. With enough checking so that everybody gets comfortable, and sorting out misunderstandings as it happens -- that sort of thing can comb out very well. But for complex cooperation, there are elements of courtship. And some kinds of comfortable cooperation take while, and a lot of words -- to form a corpus of really shared definitions.

So, you want identical definitions.

You work to get them -- and you check to see that you have them -- and fix things when that's needed.

With perfect good will on all sides, sometimes it will be.

rshowalter - 07:14pm Jun 15, 2001 EST (#5228 of 5245)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

Russia NEEDS to learn to talk to Europeans more effectively than it now does, and Russians need to communicate with each other more effectively than they now do.

There have been big problems of cultural diffusion between Europe and Russia for going on for a thousand years -- they needed to be sorted through better than they are -- not that Russians should be LIKE Americans or some other groups -- but they should know how to talk to them.

And Americans and Europeans should learn much more about talking to Russians.

A while back, I suggested that if Russian staffers actually spent some time talking to authors of particular "unrussian" books -- they might learn some communication skills - especially expression of disagreement without uncontrolled fighting -- that I think Russia as a culture particularly needs.

I think the human resources of Russia are there to bloom, in a particularly Russian way -- and that we can live and work together much better, more comfortably, more productively, and more safely than we have.

A good deal of learning is going to be necessary.

From both sides. There are MANY things Russia has to offer -- and some of them are valuable just because they ARE so different.

If Russia and the US were working together, between them they might sort out a lot of problems all over the world. And life would be more fun.

rshowalter - 07:20pm Jun 15, 2001 EST (#5229 of 5245)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

For now, getting nukes down, getting military balances that really make sense, and getting a world that communicates well enough, and has enough discipline, so that terror - either in its American nuclear form, or in other forms -- becomes much less acceptable -- are desirable goals.

If the US spent a dime on peacemaking for every dollar it spends on Missile Defense -- (maybe giving the EU use of the money, on the promise that it really goes for peacemaking) the need for the missile defense might fade away fairly quickly. If it did because of real peace, there would be an engineer shortage, and the mic would have plenty of other things to do, it seems to me.

lunarchick - 07:25pm Jun 15, 2001 EST (#5230 of 5245)
lunarchick@www.com

Regarding discourse and volume of words, one might argue that the reason why Europe is happier with the 72 agreement rather than the proposed sheild is because looking at the discourse on 'Shield' they have yet to discover conceptualisations that are both believeable and that they can feel comfortable with.

In relation to the Bwsh no one is comfortable with his 100+ days .... these have been seen has historically retrograde, pandering to his Bush-Senior interests, and locked out are Americans in general, Europeans, and the rest of the world.

The support Bwsh retains comes from countries that may need to call on America in relation to their isolation, intransigent corrupt forces within their country, and those looking to maintain good trading relations.

Strategically a stronger Russia would seem politically necessary to balance out economically strengthening Asian power blocks.

If Puting were looking for assistance to take down unstable weapons, and cognitive growth re development of the Commerical/Industrial aspects of Russia, then the West should be able to accommodate.

lunarchick - 07:28pm Jun 15, 2001 EST (#5231 of 5245)
lunarchick@www.com

http://www.transparency.de/

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