New York Times on the Web Forums Science

Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

gisterme - 07:30pm Jun 7, 2001 EST (#4579 of 4585)

rshowalter wrote: "...Now, much too often the truth is bad for ratings because people fear reality..."

Right Robert, and those people who fear the reality are the ultra-liberal editors/bosses who control the content of much of the electronic and print media. The spinmeisters. Aren't they the ones who are concerned about "ratings"? Yes they are. They're the ones attuned to the sound of jingling pieces of silver. That's the REAL motivation for a culture of lying.

Why else would folks like that so cheefully acknowledge "spin" (propagandizing) in the media they dominate? Well, I'd grant that the confession probably does soothe their apparently stunted consciences. They seem to assume that "We the Sheeple", their clients, are too stupid to realize how distorted much of the BS they serve up is. That arrogant (and incorrect) attitude has been promoted to the point that they're proud of the "spin" they put on things; proud to the extent that one television program, "The Spin Room" proclaims its propagandizing right in the program title. Why would anybody go to "The Propaganda Room" if they wanted to hear the truth? To me, THAT'S an example of the culture of lying. Your statement above shows that your're fully on board with the concept, Robert.

Left-wing liberal extremists, especially the lunatic fringe, are always quick to hypothesize an unprovable conspiracy of lies by any who don't hold with their views and agendas, just like you do, Robert. You ARE consistent in your mostly-baseless bad mouthing of those folks. You even try to re-frame history into those terms, hoping ,I suppose, to persuade the ignorant or the stupid to your "spun" point of view.

You have placed yourself in the position of "arbitor of truth", Robert, a position traditionally reserved for God. You say things like "...there's no absolute truth...", "...that's all the truth we need..." (to do this or that) and that we need "right" answers. Of course you mean YOUR "right" answers, based on your own interpretaion of truth. "Right" because of the infallibility of the Robert Showalter judgement, no doubt. You want "moral forcing" and "checking with teeth" based you YOUR "right" answers, YOUR truth. That's just fascism you're proposing, Robert.

I don't buy it and most intelligent and informed people won't. Those people don't have time for endless repetitions of the same old crap. Do you think that sufficient repetition will somehow transfom it to perfume? You must.

gisterme - 07:31pm Jun 7, 2001 EST (#4580 of 4585)

gisterme 4579 continued:

You may find some converts to your view among the stupid and the ignorant, Bob, but the ignorant tend to become better informed over time, and stupid of the world are a small minority indeed. My guess is that's why not many folks seem to pay more than passing attention to this "discussion".

Don't take what I say here as a personal attack, Robert. Take it as a set of observations by one of those who disagrees with your veiws and agenda. No doubt gisterme will become part of some conspiracy once he departs this thread. :-)

You often say you want folks to try to see others' points of view, as if you think that's an alien concept to anybody but yourself. You don't seem to notice that people do that all the time. You should take your own advice.

Finally, I'll say one last time, that if a BMD, working or not, deployed or not can be a tool that leads to strategic nuclear disarmament it would be a bargain at ten times the cost. It's not the missiles that are important. It's the opportunities that they present for negotiation that are important.

That pretty much wraps up what gisterme has to say on this thread.

--Bye

rshowalter - 07:36pm Jun 7, 2001 EST (#4581 of 4585)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

On the issue of truth, I'll file this - and then read your post, gisterme -- because I'm suggesting a short circuiting of "liberal biases."

MD2029: rshowalter 4/6/01 6:34am MD2030: rshowalter 4/6/01 6:50am MD2031 rshowalter 4/6/01 7:08am

The journalistic "culture of lying" is based on usages that rely on limitations of human memory, and limitations on the human ability to handle complexity. With the internet, those limits can be radically extended, and the techniqus of the "culture of lying" can be placed under new, powerful, and entertaining pressure, in the public interest.

Not only would this change be in the public interest. It would be entertaining ! And with storage as cheap as it is now, manageable.

Russia should stop lying so much MD2057 rshowalter 4/6/01 1:00pm
America, too.

lunarchick - 07:44pm Jun 7, 2001 EST (#4582 of 4585)
lunarchick@www.com

GI: people rely on 'professionals' who have a code of ETHICS to tell them TRUE stories about the world we live in.

GI: seems to say there are no professionals with ethics.

GI said Left-wing liberal extremists, especially the lunatic fringe, are always quick to hypothesize an unprovable conspiracy of lies by any who don't hold with their views and agendas, just like you do, Robert.

What used to be left moves to the CENTER and then becomes RIGHT (conservative/accepted) and then becomes embedded and history .... and looks for quality revivalists to improve upon it.

So to say that Showaler is a left wing extreme-ist in this framework is to say that he's looking for the future NOW, that can be integrated into the universal consciousness, may then move to the center, later be considered accepted = history ...

As new goals are reached for and achieved .. to make the Human Race .. happier and more comfortable in both body and mind in the world we inhabit.

GI ... you seem over-wrought today .. why so ?

james22h - 07:54pm Jun 7, 2001 EST (#4583 of 4585)

Gisterme
I wish you would stay...Yes ,people do read this thread.You are educateing the Americans and others.Some of do care,we are not just smiling in your face, while having secret agendas. We do care. So come back when you want to talk. we listen.

(2 following messages)

New York Times on the Web Forums Science Missile Defense