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New York Times on the Web Forums Science
Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans
for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be
limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI
all over again?
(3423 previous messages)
rshowalter
- 04:11pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3424
of 3427) Robert Showalter
showalte@macc.wisc.edu
let me recopy 2999: rshowalter
5/2/01 1:41pm which responds to your 2997. I believe, now, that
a good deal of it should be "common ground."
gisterme 5/2/01 1:09pm "Okay, Robert, I'll bite. What are the
lies, the missteps and who is the very small extraconstitutional
group?"
Lies:
The United States, from the time of the Eisenhower
administration on, had a policy of threatening - in effect,
scaring, the Soviet Union into a situation where long-term
collapse of the Soviet Union would occur. The Russians were
vulnerable to this, and we knew it. We scared them to the edge of
paralysis, and put their system under pressure that, over years,
they could not withstand.
To do that, there had to be a great deal of
deception and manipulation in our dealing with the Soviets -- it
was in our interest to let them feel that we were, continuously
and actively, plotting first strikes -- something that they did
believe.
To make the strategy work, the United States
government also had to overstate, continuously and often radically
the extent of the Soviet threat to both the American people and to
Congress, which, very, very often, funded the US defense system
under false pretenses. ( The Soviet postion, monstrous as the
society was in many ways, was usually defensive --- we were
practically never "outgunned" any militarily significant way, from
1955 on. )
There were many lies involved with this
policy. Perhaps they were lies in a good cause, and justified. But
a tremendous amount of deception, over long duration, and much
manipulation of Americans in ways inconsistent with American
ideals and institutions.
Missteps:
There were a number of missteps, but I feel this
one was the largest: .... When the Soviet Union did collapse,
we did not turn our nuclear threats off, and the Russians have
been near-paralyzed, as a result of psychological warfare that
should have been ended, since.
The very small extraconstitutional group:
To run the very long term policy of getting the
Soviet Union to break, by maintaining very high fear levels, and
at the same time to minimize tensions on our own side, and to keep
threats we were making, that our own people would not tolerate,
from being known, a small group of military and CIA officers,
initially very much influenced by Curtis LeMay, set up a long-term
organization. The organization was extraconstitutional and in some
ways informal, and very largely independent of political control.
After the Kennedy administration, it was not entirely under the
control of the President of the United States. At sometimes,
almost independent of presidential will. The President did, in
more than name, control the decision to actually fire nuclear
weapons (LeMay had tried to take that unto himself) but LeMay and
related people and their successors did, as a practical matter,
control most nuclear policy, with little or no effective
supervision, or really capable financial accounting.
On these threads there's a good deal more detail, and I'll go
after it -- but that's the gist of it.
There were reasons why this happened. Some of them good reasons
at the time.
But the nuclear terror is an American invention and development.
We've used threat and terror, very effectively, for a long time. If
we took action, and acknowledged what we did, then effective nuclear
disarmament would be possible -- at least to the point where nuclear
risks were no larger than many of the natural disaster risks we cope
with.
*****
Now, I don't think you contest very much of this anymore -- on
much of it, we have common ground. How do you think it looks to a
lot of people outside the U.S.? (I might also ask how it ought to
look to Americans.)
rshowalter
- 04:17pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3425
of 3427) Robert Showalter
showalte@macc.wisc.edu
And how do you think missile defense looks in light of this
history. And more recent history, too. I think we ought to agree
that I've dealt with a "Clinton-stand in" "beckq" (whether
"beckq - cookiess0" is "just a man on the street" of not,
he's acted as a "stand in" for Clinton. Do I think the stand in
might have been Clinton himself. Yes, I think that's possible. In a
similar sense, I've been dealing with a "Putin-stand in" -- useful
for a dry run -- very able- and an interesting character, whether
he's Putin or not. Here's a quote:
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