New York Times on the Web Forums Science
Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans
for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be
limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI
all over again?
(1130 previous messages)
rshowalter
- 06:02pm Mar 17, 2001 EST (#1131
of 1137) Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu
In Chapter 4, p 63, Kline writes this:
" In very complex systems, such as
sociotechnical systems, we have no theory of entire systems, and
must therefore create, operate, and improve such systems via
feedback: that is, repeated cycles of human observations plus
trials of envisioned improvements in the real systems. In such
very complex systems, data from a wide variety of cases therefore
becomes the primary basis for understanding and judgements . . .
"
So for complex systems, and especially sociotechnical systems,
which are VERY complex, correct information matters, again and
again, because it is used as feedback to run or modify the system.
Unchecked assumptions can be expensive or disastrous. Lies can be
disastrous. Because if the reliability of the information used in
the feedback is limited, the function of the system is also limited
-- and the system is likely to fail badly if it has to be changed.
The truth is known, in such a circumstance, to be much more safe,
and much more advantageous, than lies or wrong ideas. And so
checking for correctness is very practical, and lies, even very well
intentioned or understandable ones, can be very damaging.
rshowalter
- 06:10pm Mar 17, 2001 EST (#1132
of 1137) Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu
Steve means something pretty simple when he speaks of his Index
of complexity -- it is, for all the systems we looked at (and I put
hundreds of hours into this part of Steve's work) C, the complexity
number is constrained as follows:
V + P + L < C < V times P times L
where
V is the number of independent variables
P is the number of independent parameters needed
to distinguish the system from other systems of the same class
and
L is the number of feedback loops both
within the system and connecting the system to its surroundings.
The most complicated problems engineers can now solve explicitly
have C < 5 (I'm expecting to extend that a bit. )
Human social systems, even simple ones, have C values in the
billions. in such very complex systems, we must create, operate,
and improve via feedback: that is, repeated cycles of human
observations plus trials of envisioned improvements in the real
systems."
And so the truth is crucial for function.
rshowalter
- 06:13pm Mar 17, 2001 EST (#1133
of 1137) Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu
Here is the essence of the most effective psychological warfare -
- you mess up a system, and can even shut it down, by telling lies.
Russia has been the victim of some very sophisticated and
effective psychological warfare from outside, and has, to a
significant degree, been weakened by lies its own people and
goverment have told.
Similar things, to a lesser degree, can be said of America.
We need, for practical reasons, to increase the probability of
right answers in our information systems -- we need to replace lies
with truths.
On issues involving military balances, we need to very much
increase it.
Especially because peace requires it.
Russia has a right, and an obligation, to get a clear
understanding, that it can see and that other nations can see, of
the threats to which it has been subjected, and the deceptions.
For practical reasons, and for moral reasons. Peace and
prosperity both require it.
rshowalter
- 06:17pm Mar 17, 2001 EST (#1134
of 1137) Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu
As a practical matter, one checks facts and ideas by a matching
process --- matching the logic step by step against trusted
standards, and --- usually much more important, matching to see if
what is said matches what is there when you check.
rshowalter
- 06:19pm Mar 17, 2001 EST (#1135
of 1137) Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu
Refusal to check, and refusal to permit checking, can be very
dangerous, and damaging.
Especially where nuclear weapons are involved. And where nuclear
weapons are involved, the most essential things are hidden, and have
been hidden, and concealed, and lied about, actively and agressively
for half a century of terror.
rshowalter
- 06:24pm Mar 17, 2001 EST (#1136
of 1137) Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu
In HUMAN terms, getting at the truth may, very often, require
redemptive solutions -- because without them, the human resistance
to finding the truth may be absolutely insurmountable. And the costs
of "justice" -- even if you could decently define it - and sometime
you can't - can be prohibitive.
But the TRUTH is essential, for moral and psychological reasons,
and for practical reasons that become more compelling, at something
like a factorial rate of growth, as systems become more complicated.
rshowalter
- 06:35pm Mar 17, 2001 EST (#1137
of 1137) Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu
My computer seems to be under fairly heavy attack --I may get
slowed down a bit, but hope to keep on. ...
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