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Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

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rshow55 - 02:54pm Aug 11, 2002 EST (#3649 of 3667)

I'm moving slowly - - but I'd like to repost MD1785 rshow55 4/26/02 11:19am , which summarizes a lot.

Sometimes I wonder if this thread is worthwhile -- but then I look at what has been accomplished, and the problems adressed -- problems that have stumped the whole culture -- and it seems very worthwhile. Slow as it is - and in need of an umpire as it is.

As things now stand, the "rules of engagement" rule out closure - nobody gets to settle things that are essentially facts. Including matters of huge financial consequence (the military budget is now more than 1200$ for every American) and matters of life, death, and decency.

The public relations people, the people who argue for money, have set the "rules of engagement" up so that not even Ted Turner can get an effective hearing on some key issues to closure -- even when he spends a lot of money. Free speech becomes freedom to lie, freedom to muddy the water -- freedom to keep anything from getting checked. Not freedom with responsibility for consequences - when those consequences obviously matter.

Columnists at the NYT, notably Krugman - state as facts things that, if they were accepted as facts - - would have grave and saving consequences. Not even Krugman can get things to closure - - key things. Yet for our culture to deal with some of its most basic problems - ways to get to closure about facts that matter to us all have to be found. Lchic and I have been working on them, and made some headway. I've recently said some negative things about Mazza - and have considered what he wrote in response. I stand by them. Whether I happen to be right or wrong on some details -- I'm concerned, looking this thread - at how unstable our usages are.

The usages that rule out checking need to change - because the current patterns are too dangerous, and too wasteful. Since Enron, there has been some change. People - including interested people outside the United States - should ask for more change - by asking key questions.

Lies are unstable - if the checking process actually happens.

mazza9 - 06:48pm Aug 11, 2002 EST (#3650 of 3667)
"Quae cum ita sunt" Caesar's Gallic Commentaries

How nice. You stand by illogic and "FORCE" as a means to accomplish your ends. How different is your forcing from that of Saddam when he gassed the Kurds. I remember the pictures of the women and children as they lay in "death's rictus". they were forced but I wonder if they got the point intellectually?

lchic, how can I force you to communicate in a respectful manner and stop demeaning me by mispronouncing my name?

LouMazza

lchic - 12:18am Aug 12, 2002 EST (#3651 of 3667)

mAzzA did you dig the above post out of your recycle bin ... not again!

Had those 76 words been trombones, i would have been impressed!

lchic - 12:21am Aug 12, 2002 EST (#3652 of 3667)

Florence C13 developed a method to balance books.

America, streets ahead of the world and intsigator of the lie detector and the rest ....

America ... hasn't got the story straight on 'who killed cock robin' ... which little spy with it's bow and arrow?

If America was all those things it thinks it is when it goes weak at the knees re patriotism ... how come America hasn't got a system that it can use to check and cross-check

by putting facts in the black letter column and lies in the red ... to balance and total then doubly underline the result regarding how things stand on annual liesTruth stock-take day.

lchic - 04:58am Aug 12, 2002 EST (#3653 of 3667)

A cartoon-musical about suicide bombing and racist thuggery, considered too inflammatory to be shown in the Middle East, is to premiere next week at the Edinburgh international film festival.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/edinburgh2002/story/0,12262,773082,00.html

Promise Land, a film in the style of a children's cartoon, features a rapping suicide bomber, racist Jews and an Arab waiter mastu|rbating into food for a Jewish table

.........

"It's important for people on both sides to see there is suffering on both sides. I know films don't change the world and I know no one is listening both in Palestine and in Israel."

rshow55 - 08:33am Aug 12, 2002 EST (#3654 of 3667)

The usages that rule out checking need to change - because the current patterns are too dangerous, and too wasteful. Since Enron, there has been some change. People - including interested people outside the United States - should ask for more change - by asking key questions.

Here are facts that it seems to me are basic - things that we all know - and have to know at some level - from about the time we learn to talk.

. People say and do things.

. What people say and do have consequences, for themselves and for other people.

. People need to deal with and understand these consequences, for all sorts of practical, down to earth reasons.

Every individual, and every group, has a stake in right answers on questions of fact that they have to use as assumptions for what they say and do.

Whatever our differences otherwise - I don't think people can reasonably disagree about the points just above.

We have problems at this simple level. They are dangerous - and both more dangerous and more hopeful recently - because communication means are so much more powerful than they used to be.

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