New York Times on the Web Forums Science

Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

Read Debates, a new Web-only feature culled from Readers' Opinions, published every Thursday.

fredmoore - 03:57pm Sep 17, 2003 EST (# 13703 of 13824)

Robert,

The following poem by another Robert (Robert Browning) gives some insight into the relationship the current manifestation of capitalism (corporate state Inc) has to the Environment and to Individuality. I hope you and Lchic like it. Is there a fairer system that can afford an FDR style 'new deal' for all world citizens? Do we have to maintain 5% economic and population growth levels to satisfy economic criteria at the expense of humanity?

PORPHYRIAS LOVER

THE rain set early in to-night, The sullen wind was soon awake, It tore the elm-tops down for spite, And did its worst to vex the lake: I listened with heart fit to break. When glided in Porphyria; straight She shut the cold out and the storm, And kneeled and made the cheerless grate Blaze up, and all the cottage warm; Which done, she rose, and from her form Withdrew the dripping cloak and shawl, And laid her soiled gloves by, untied Her hat and let the damp hair fall, And, last, she sat down by my side And called me. When no voice replied, She put my arm about her waist, And made her smooth white shoulder bare And all her yellow hair displaced, And, stooping, made my cheek lie there, And spread, o'er all, her yellow hair, Murmuring how she loved me- she Too weak, for all her heart's endeavor, To set its struggling passion free From pride, and vainer ties dissever, And give herself to me forever. But passion sometimes would prevail, Nor could to-night's gay feast restrain A sudden thought of one so pale For love of her, and all in vain: So, she was come through wind and rain.

Be sure I looked up at her eyes Happy and proud; at last I knew Porphyria worshipped me: surprise Made my heart swell, and still it grew While I debated what to do. That moment she was mine, mine, fair, Perfectly pure and good: I found A thing to do, and all her hair In one long yellow string I wound Three times her little throat around, And strangled her. No pain felt she; I am quite sure she felt no pain. As a shut bud that hold a bee, I warily oped her lids: again Laughed the blue eyes without a stain. And I untightened next the tress About her neck; her cheek once more Blushed bright beneath my burning kiss: I propped her head up as before, Only, this time my shoulder bore Her head, which droops upon it still: The smiling rosy little head, So glad it has its utmost will, That all it scorned at once is fled, And I, its love, am gained instead! Porphyria's love: she guessed not how Her darling one wish would be heard. And thus we sit together now, And all night long we have not stirred, And yet God has not said a word! THE END

gisterme - 07:41pm Sep 17, 2003 EST (# 13704 of 13824)

Fred -

"...What gives?..."

I suppose my patience is wearing down a bit after a few years of the same thing over and over and over and...

I'm not intending to be intentionally spiteful. If something I have said comes across that way then I'm sorry for that. However, I don't think I've said anything that's untrue. If you think I have, please point it out.

If I seem a little miffed, I am. That's because Robert has recently decided to attribute points of view and opinions to me that are absolutely false and that do not reflect either what I think or what I've said in any way. In fact, he's putting words that he's fabricated in my mouth to serve his own agenda whatever that may be. For me that's a step beyond simply claiming I'm somebody I'm not.

You're certainly welcome to pat him on the back for that if you like, Fred. However, you might not be so willing to do so if he were doing that to you.

I've got to admit that a few years of dealing with Robert's disingenuousness may have caused me to lean in the direction of being a bit shagnasty towards him. I find that I just don't have any more cheeks to turn. So, I think you're right and Will's right and my own instincts are right to say this isn't worth the trouble. I'll follow Lou's advice and put Robert on my ignore list.

Maybe we really can discuss missile defense again if anything new comes up.

Robert, I wish you well. Caio.

cantabb - 08:31pm Sep 17, 2003 EST (# 13705 of 13824)

Close to 14,000 posts now, but I don't see the debate on this forum YET conforming to the stated Header :

Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

Personal matters raised and discussed in endless circular references have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Forum Header. The debate does NOT even belong in a forum supposedly dedicated to "Science."

Despite this and complainmts by various posters about the relevance of the content and how a "SCIENCE" forum is abused, its continuance thus far shows that NYT must really want to keep it wandering aimlessly ! It looks like a Chat room and a kitchen sink, par excellence.

I wonder if NYT Moderators ever check this Forum.

My (unsolicited) suggestion to NYT is (though I doubt if this will be considered, much less followed):

1. Move it to a political group of forums [if interested THAT much in continuing it). Spare the "Science Forums."

2. Shut it down. And put NYT Forum space to BETTER use.

Am not holding my breath.

.

(119 following messages)

New York Times on the Web Forums Science Missile Defense