New York Times on the Web Forums Science

Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

Read Debates, a new Web-only feature culled from Readers' Opinions, published every Thursday.

rshow55 - 08:12am Jul 9, 2003 EST (# 12904 of 12910)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

From http://www.nytimes.com/national/nationalspecial/index.html

INTERACTIVE FEATURE: The Wing's Leading Edge

The Columbia investigation has focused on the left wing. Foam, a small meteorite or a small piece of space debris may have damaged the structure.

. . .Sensor Readings on the Wing

. . .Insulation Tiles

The "gap filling insulation" that did not cause death on Atlantis was not very near the leading edge of the craft. (Look at the picture.) A breach at the real leading edge would have been much more serious per unit area - and the area of the breach on Columbia was much larger, too.

NASA engineers were crazy not to worry about this. Or "acting normally" for human beings - in ways human beings need to understand with fewer illusions.

rshow55 - 08:53am Jul 9, 2003 EST (# 12905 of 12910)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

lchic - 06:22am Jul 8, 2003 EST (# 12888 posts one of her poems:

Condi lines up the dots

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7726f/1239

How is it that we sometimes "line up the dots" wrong ? Even though we're usually right?

Both Nixon and I were trained to "work things out in detail - for ourselves" - but I think I got better, more complete training from Eisenhower in his retirement than Nixon got as Vice President and President. (That wasn't a reason for Nixon and I to like each other.)

You have to keep at it and do enough crosschecking to gain reasonable assurance that the virtual model of what to do that you've "worked out" is complete and right enough.

The whole culture has problems at this level. For basic reasons - it is clear that leaders, and staff people making suggestions to leaders - have to get their thoughts sharp - and not trust the bureacracy to "clarify things for them." Power relations make that unavoidable - human limitations make that unavoidable.

But we haven't been as clear as we need to be about what can go wrong with "connecting the dots" - and how to deal with the problems. Edison may have been clearer about that than anyone else - in his own field. Often "bright ideas" have to be rejected - again and again. There has to be switching, cycling, between confidence and doubt. Confidence for action. Doubt for getting things right.

Be sure you're right - then go ahead.

is a basic requirement. Sometimes the different jobs - figuring out what to do, and doing it - have to be handled at different levels, or in cycles.

On weapons of mass destruction, National Security Advisor Rice explained that she, Bush, and others had " a lot of dots ." - - and that was an important point. She, and others in the Bush administration - are doing some things right - but taking more risks than they have to - and more than we ought to have to afford.

The NASA mess illustrates a lot. Compared to other disasters that could easily happen - body counts were low.

How can people, individually and collectively, do so many beautiful, brilliant things? How can they, individually and collectively, be so ugly and stupid?

We need to face some fairly simple answers. They are close at hand.

lchic - 09:16am Jul 9, 2003 EST (# 12906 of 12910)
~~~~ It got understood and exposed ~~~~

'Acting' - is the operative word - moving from 'science' to the 'humanities' ....

lchic - 09:20am Jul 9, 2003 EST (# 12907 of 12910)
~~~~ It got understood and exposed ~~~~

NASA engineers were crazy not to worry about this. Or "acting normally" for human beings - in ways human beings need to understand with fewer illusions. #12903

Acting normally

'Acting' - is the operative word - moving from 'science' to the 'humanities' ....

(3 following messages)

New York Times on the Web Forums Science Missile Defense