New York Times on the Web Forums Science

Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

Read Debates, a new Web-only feature culled from Readers' Opinions, published every Thursday.

rshow55 - 08:40am Jun 19, 2003 EST (# 12593 of 12606)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

I've often said that lchic's is the most valuable mind I've ever encountered.

She can summarize clearly - sharply - building new and better "search keys" that can help us "sort things out for ourselves" - effectively and beautifully.

And she knows, respects, and finds facts.

I'm grateful for the chance to work with her.

rshow55 - 08:47am Jun 19, 2003 EST (# 12594 of 12606)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

G.O.P. Dismisses Questions on Banned Arms Proof in Iraq By DAVID E. SANGER and CARL HULSE (NYT) News http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/18/politics/18WEAP.html raises issues that are as important as they can be.

Why not lie? Doesn't everybody do it?

Of course, at one level of another, everybody does, and leaders do too. What of it?

Why not just shug it off, as the Republicans now plan to do about the argument about WMD that was so central to our arguments for invading Iraq?

Didn't it "all turn out all for the best?" Some consequences might have been better - putting the matter gently.

The deception itself ought to be a big issue.

People rely on each other for the organization of their minds - we all have to "sort things out for ourselves" but we give each other search keys - and key referents. If these "search keys" or facts are wrong - the essential process by which we order our minds (individually or collectively) are poisoned.

And so right answers matter -and the more complex situations are - and the more unpredictable they are -the more the truth matters.

rshow55 - 08:52am Jun 19, 2003 EST (# 12595 of 12606)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

9360 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.8LCubOV2htx.213299@.f28e622/10899

9363 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.8LCubOV2htx.213299@.f28e622/10902

Repeating from Russel's passage in 9360:

" The fundamental object (of language) is to enable men to apply themselves to a common purpose. Thus the basic notion here is agreement. "

Agreement isn't logic. It isn't necessarily rightness, compared to facts - or fit to purpose, reasonably understood - even from the narrow perspective of the group - fully considered. Butfacts and the "search keys" that explanations are for us matter because people have to organize their minds and make decisions that matter.

1359 http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?13@@.ee7b2bd/1491

1466 -1480 http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7b2bd/1631

People say and do things. .

What people say and do have consequences, for themselves and for other people. .

People need to deal with and understand these consequences, for all sorts of practical, down to earth reasons. .

. So everybody has a stake in right answers on questions of fact that they have to use as assumptions for what they say and do.

If the bolded point, just above, were more widely and deeply understood - and linked to the simple points just above it -- a great many things in the world would be better - and people, just as they are, could solve many of the most important and practical problems they face.

As of now, the idea that "everybody has a stake in right answers on questions of fact that they have to use as assumptions for what they say and do" is actively denied whenever anyone with power actually objects.

Instead, the point should be common ground.

(11 following messages)

New York Times on the Web Forums Science Missile Defense