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Favorite Poetry

Contemporary or classic? Sonnet or free verse? What is it about poetry that strikes the imagination -- or turns some people away? To post poems in a single-space format, type (BR) at the end of each line but substitute < > for ( ). This is a "break line" indicator. It will allow the next line to appear right under the previous one, making the poem easier to read.

rshowalt - 11:30am Sep 23, 2000 EST (#6242 of 6739)

Willy Nilly if nuclear weapons had been removed from the world immediately after the fall of the Soviet Union, I think some of your arguments would have been much stronger. But on balance, I think your arguments are clear, but misleading and dangerous. I'll try to respond in more detail.

One point I'd like to respond to, now. Why discuss this in a poetry forum? The reason is that I believe that the essential problem with nuclear disarmament is that people somehow do not really understand, intellectually, and emotionally, what nuclear weapons are, what they do, and how dangerous they are. I think if people recognized this, nuclear weapons would be pretty quickly removed from the world. Poetry connects the reason and the emotions. Poetry helps people look at things they've looked at before, in a fresh way. I think that's important.

wolverine137 - 11:55am Sep 23, 2000 EST (#6243 of 6739)
Disco before death.

rshowalt:

POETRY CONNECTS THE REASON AND THE EMOTIONS.

bdhpoet1 - 12:38pm Sep 23, 2000 EST (#6244 of 6739)
...

Richochet

They richochet
bounce, glance, fly into space, often
not knowing where they might arrive, with less logic
than they might imagine, they seek
a place to stop.

Why, when motion is life
do they wish to constrain
even they, themselves, is it
that they wish to be larger, or must
they just collect, grow, and form
into larger masses, larger and larger
slower and slower, until they become stationary.

Is it so surprising, that we, humans
behave like atoms, when all we are is atomic, except
our conscousness, or is it atomic as well
always moving, always searching, never resting.

(c) All Rights Reserved September 23, 2000

Billy Dean Hester

bdhpoet1 - 12:40pm Sep 23, 2000 EST (#6245 of 6739)
...

The First Moderns is being voted for in the November Reading Group.

rshowalt - 07:14pm Sep 23, 2000 EST (#6246 of 6739)

I've hesitated before responding to WILLY_NILLY's #6238 posting. It is a masterful performance - a clear, solid statement of a conventional wisdom, very widespread in this country, and practically doctrine in the U.S. military forces, that totally discredits the idea of nuclear disarmament.

A system of falsehoods, fit together, can, if accepted, make for an entirely coherent story. It is important, I believe, to deal with this story. With Americans convinced of this story, and the Russians convinced that the world is very different, there isn't any solution. Are the points Willy_Nilly makes right or wrong? How can the matter be checked ?

The crux of the problem with achieving nuclear disarmament, in my view, is encapsulated, with excellent coherence and fine writing, in # 6238.

One can count noses .... very many people believe as Willy_Nilly .

That doesn't make it true.

I'll be back in the morning.

Poets, Menken said, were mostly engaged in the pursuit of the "agreeably not true" ..... the "wrapping of harsh life in the bandages of soft illusion." Some poetry is like that.

But much poetry is engaged in finding new, fresh looks, and deeper, truth.

I think a poet's sensibilities may be, not only useful, but even essential, when the question of how the "facts" and "ideas" WILLY-NILLY cites are to be CHECKED are considered. These are "facts" that people believe, and patterns of explanation that people believe, because the nuclear authorities have said they are true, and said "trust me." How do we get beyond "trust me" to careful, responsible, distrustful checking.

Hitler went unchecked and had he been checked, much agony would have been avoided. The facts and arguments in #6238 need to be checked, too.

wolverine137 - 07:46pm Sep 23, 2000 EST (#6247 of 6739)
Disco before death.

rshowalt: Hitler could easily have been stopped too, early on. I guess the world was weary of war, with 10 million dead and 10 million scarred physically or mentally, from the war to end all wars, but he could and should have been stopped.

willy_nilly - 07:53pm Sep 23, 2000 EST (#6248 of 6739)

Hitler went unchecked and had he been checked, much agony would have been avoided. The facts and arguments in #6238 need to be checked, too.

Rshowalt

Don't wait too long to respond. I've already taken Austria and Czechoslovakia, and I have my eyes on Poland.

By the way, I think the Hitler analogy fits in well with what I've been saying. It takes strength to prevent war, and not just good wishes. I'd like to see nuclear weapons eliminated too, but right now the imbalance between offense and defense is too strong to do so. As long as we can't guarantee the safety of ourselves and other countries, I don't think that we can afford to give up the nuclear deterrent.

rshowalt - 08:21pm Sep 23, 2000 EST (#6249 of 6739)

Willy_Nilly: "I'd like to see nuclear weapons eliminated too, but right now the imbalance between offense and defense is too strong to do so. As long as we can't guarantee the safety of ourselves and other countries, I don't think that we can afford to give up the nuclear deterrent.

Good point. We MUST guarantee the safety of ourselves and others ! And it can't be a matter of trust. There have to be credible threats, and effective forces.

I think we can do just that, and that the best thing that could happen to national security, and world safety, would be elimination of nuclear weapons.

Not to bring in a world of love and trust - that won't happen. But to have a safer, better, more stable world, where we can coexist, usually safely if uneasily, with the distrust that nation states always have good reason to have for each other.

It'll be easier to write poems about military function after we do this.

Back in the morning. I'm knocking off for dinner, and having a beer.

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